Visual reminder to oil change during break in (at 1000 miles)

[Nodak]

just follow ADM advice on CCNut YT pages on oil changes.

Sponsored

 

[brumey]

just follow ADM advice on CCNut YT pages on oil changes.

I have to agree, seems like good advice backed with knowledge and experience. I wish all dealership mechanics were like him.

 

[Vincenzo]

That looks no bueno

 

[qtb007]

You have a filter that keeps this from getting anywhere dangerous. YouTube FUDsters gonna FUD, though.

 

[The_Dark_Knight_Forever]

You have a filter that keeps this from getting anywhere dangerous. YouTube FUDsters gonna FUD, though.

“FUD”?

 

[Burgi]

how much oil did you refill with OP? Manual calls for 5.9 and 5.5ish put me right in the middle of the dipstick.

 

[qtb007]

“FUD”?

Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

People buy Toyotas because of their reliability reputation. So, the vehicle lasting as long as possible is a top criteria. That's why we often times pay more for a Toyota over a competitor. It is established that every Toyota owner cares about that.

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt can impact our decision making... wouldn't want that complicated, expensive, difficult to repair thing that we bought precisely on the promise of not failing to fail because of something you did!

So, if someone comes up to you and says "wow, I heard that these will fail if you do ABC or don't do XYZ" it will naturally pique your interest. This is literally the angle for many youtubers to get your to click. They don't bring statistics. They don't bring studies. They bring an anecdote. They bring a failed engine and point out a symptom. Here is where an actual expert and a youtuber diverge. The expert will lay it out like a crime scene. Showing evidence of what was working correctly and what wasn't. They'll take measurements and compare against specifications. They'll repeat the proposed root cause to recreate the symptom. This is difficult, usually expensive, and most importantly -- for the typical youtube viewer -- boring.

The Youtuber's primary purpose is to create content that generates clicks. It has to be flashy, easily digested, and easily shared. They give a simple explanation and a simple solution. The viewer feels smarter and feels sure that they can prevent a terrible outcome. Double points if the simple solution is something the youtuber can sell to the viewer or an idea becomes "common knowledge" that financially benefits the youtuber -- a certified master mechanic recommending additional maintenance, for example). The youtuber plays up the "you're going to ruin this very expensive vehicle if you don't watch my video and listen to my recommendation!" That's why it is FUD. It is based on feelings and emotion rather than science and data. The youtube mechanic in Indiana doesn't directly financially benefit from convincing a viewer in California to do extra maintenance... but if that idea spreads via the internet, the youtube mechanic in Indiana will have more customers than before. It is essentially a form of marketing.

The Tundra V6TT is an interesting topic regarding all this. One... it is a very high profile failure in the market from a durability perspective. It shows that Toyota does make some mistakes. That's uncertainty. Two... we don't see people recommending oil changes to fix this engine even though contamination is the actual problem straight from Toyota's mouth. That's because no amount of extra oil changes are going to fix that engine. It was either built wrong or designed wrong. The very thing this thread starts with... contamination on gloves... and an early oil change will "prevent from being a problem" isn't the fix on the Tundra.

The FUDsters know better than to actually recommend their easy fix to a big, complicated problem like this because it will show that they aren't actually experts. That's because maintenance doesn't fix design or manufacturing defects. Extra maintenance can potentially bandaid certain design defects... but that sort of defect won't be known for years and years and years.

There's no statistically significant data out there showing that the new 4Runner engine needs break in oil changes or 5000mi OCIs. There is statistically significant data that the 1GR in the 5th gen goes just fine on 10k OCIs as shown by all the trucks out there humming along with 200k+ miles on them and an engine failure before 150k being very, very uncommon.

OCIs aren't pulled out of a hat. They have design targets, standardized evaluation methods, and then confirm that the actual engine design meets the design targets. We can assume they determined that 10k OCIs were OK on a 1GR using a standardized evaluation process and they used the same standardized evaluation method on the T24. Now, could that standard have changed? Sure. Do we have any evidence of that? No, we don't.

Youtube mechanics are fantastic in their area of expertise... which is identifying symptoms and showing how to make a repair. There is a difference between root cause analysis and point of failure.

Will you hurt your vehicle by changing the oil every 1000 miles? No. You won't. Throwing out oil that still has life only hurts your wallet. People can do whatever makes them sleep better at night. My beef is with ideas that are not based on science, standards, or statistics becoming "common knowledge".

 

[ah4rsr5]

Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

People buy Toyotas because of their reliability reputation. So, the vehicle lasting as long as possible is a top criteria. That's why we often times pay more for a Toyota over a competitor. It is established that every Toyota owner cares about that.

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt can impact our decision making... wouldn't want that complicated, expensive, difficult to repair thing that we bought precisely on the promise of not failing to fail because of something you did!

So, if someone comes up to you and says "wow, I heard that these will fail if you do ABC or don't do XYZ" it will naturally pique your interest. This is literally the angle for many youtubers to get your to click. They don't bring statistics. They don't bring studies. They bring an anecdote. They bring a failed engine and point out a symptom. Here is where an actual expert and a youtuber diverge. The expert will lay it out like a crime scene. Showing evidence of what was working correctly and what wasn't. They'll take measurements and compare against specifications. They'll repeat the proposed root cause to recreate the symptom. This is difficult, usually expensive, and most importantly -- for the typical youtube viewer -- boring.

The Youtuber's primary purpose is to create content that generates clicks. It has to be flashy, easily digested, and easily shared. They give a simple explanation and a simple solution. The viewer feels smarter and feels sure that they can prevent a terrible outcome. Double points if the simple solution is something the youtuber can sell to the viewer or an idea becomes "common knowledge" that financially benefits the youtuber -- a certified master mechanic recommending additional maintenance, for example). The youtuber plays up the "you're going to ruin this very expensive vehicle if you don't watch my video and listen to my recommendation!" That's why it is FUD. It is based on feelings and emotion rather than science and data. The youtube mechanic in Indiana doesn't directly financially benefit from convincing a viewer in California to do extra maintenance... but if that idea spreads via the internet, the youtube mechanic in Indiana will have more customers than before. It is essentially a form of marketing.

The Tundra V6TT is an interesting topic regarding all this. One... it is a very high profile failure in the market from a durability perspective. It shows that Toyota does make some mistakes. That's uncertainty. Two... we don't see people recommending oil changes to fix this engine even though contamination is the actual problem straight from Toyota's mouth. That's because no amount of extra oil changes are going to fix that engine. It was either built wrong or designed wrong. The very thing this thread starts with... contamination on gloves... and an early oil change will "prevent from being a problem" isn't the fix on the Tundra.

The FUDsters know better than to actually recommend their easy fix to a big, complicated problem like this because it will show that they aren't actually experts. That's because maintenance doesn't fix design or manufacturing defects. Extra maintenance can potentially bandaid certain design defects... but that sort of defect won't be known for years and years and years.

There's no statistically significant data out there showing that the new 4Runner engine needs break in oil changes or 5000mi OCIs. There is statistically significant data that the 1GR in the 5th gen goes just fine on 10k OCIs as shown by all the trucks out there humming along with 200k+ miles on them and an engine failure before 150k being very, very uncommon.

OCIs aren't pulled out of a hat. They have design targets, standardized evaluation methods, and then confirm that the actual engine design meets the design targets. We can assume they determined that 10k OCIs were OK on a 1GR using a standardized evaluation process and they used the same standardized evaluation method on the T24. Now, could that standard have changed? Sure. Do we have any evidence of that? No, we don't.

Youtube mechanics are fantastic in their area of expertise... which is identifying symptoms and showing how to make a repair. There is a difference between root cause analysis and point of failure.

Will you hurt your vehicle by changing the oil every 1000 miles? No. You won't. Throwing out oil that still has life only hurts your wallet. People can do whatever makes them sleep better at night. My beef is with ideas that are not based on science, standards, or statistics becoming "common knowledge".

I agree with you on this. People either side with anecdotes or stats.
If Toyota really wanted to make some money (not much of a diff), they would've stated to do more frequent oil changes than 10k miles. Anecdote story though: I have a friend who has a 5G 4Runner and he wasn't aware of the break in oil change. He bought his new and also drives very aggressively. He said he floors/redlines it every week since he bought it out of the lot and also stays in lower gear (manual shift) because it taps into the power band better versus having the car hunt for gears.
To this day, he is about to hit 200k miles with no issues or oil leaks. There's a story for y'all who like anecdotes over stats

 

[darinja]

It does, and so does a pickup screen. All that "stuff" stays in the pan. On startup, Oil goes from pan to pump, filter then everywhere else. So all that debris is "collected" as the oil circulates and ends up in the pan but will not go past the filter again.
Hope that makes sense.

Thanks for teaching me something new today!

 

[Joey_Midnight]

Why isn’t the oil filter filtering these out? They don’t look too big to settle out.

To add to what kekecarioca said, the filter does get some particals but engines typically have a split feed out of the oil pump that not all oil routes thru the filter. Also when the filter becomes full it will open a bypass inside and oil will pass around it to prevent starvation .

 

[Joey_Midnight]

Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

People buy Toyotas because of their reliability reputation. So, the vehicle lasting as long as possible is a top criteria. That's why we often times pay more for a Toyota over a competitor. It is established that every Toyota owner cares about that.

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt can impact our decision making... wouldn't want that complicated, expensive, difficult to repair thing that we bought precisely on the promise of not failing to fail because of something you did!

So, if someone comes up to you and says "wow, I heard that these will fail if you do ABC or don't do XYZ" it will naturally pique your interest. This is literally the angle for many youtubers to get your to click. They don't bring statistics. They don't bring studies. They bring an anecdote. They bring a failed engine and point out a symptom. Here is where an actual expert and a youtuber diverge. The expert will lay it out like a crime scene. Showing evidence of what was working correctly and what wasn't. They'll take measurements and compare against specifications. They'll repeat the proposed root cause to recreate the symptom. This is difficult, usually expensive, and most importantly -- for the typical youtube viewer -- boring.

The Youtuber's primary purpose is to create content that generates clicks. It has to be flashy, easily digested, and easily shared. They give a simple explanation and a simple solution. The viewer feels smarter and feels sure that they can prevent a terrible outcome. Double points if the simple solution is something the youtuber can sell to the viewer or an idea becomes "common knowledge" that financially benefits the youtuber -- a certified master mechanic recommending additional maintenance, for example). The youtuber plays up the "you're going to ruin this very expensive vehicle if you don't watch my video and listen to my recommendation!" That's why it is FUD. It is based on feelings and emotion rather than science and data. The youtube mechanic in Indiana doesn't directly financially benefit from convincing a viewer in California to do extra maintenance... but if that idea spreads via the internet, the youtube mechanic in Indiana will have more customers than before. It is essentially a form of marketing.

The Tundra V6TT is an interesting topic regarding all this. One... it is a very high profile failure in the market from a durability perspective. It shows that Toyota does make some mistakes. That's uncertainty. Two... we don't see people recommending oil changes to fix this engine even though contamination is the actual problem straight from Toyota's mouth. That's because no amount of extra oil changes are going to fix that engine. It was either built wrong or designed wrong. The very thing this thread starts with... contamination on gloves... and an early oil change will "prevent from being a problem" isn't the fix on the Tundra.

The FUDsters know better than to actually recommend their easy fix to a big, complicated problem like this because it will show that they aren't actually experts. That's because maintenance doesn't fix design or manufacturing defects. Extra maintenance can potentially bandaid certain design defects... but that sort of defect won't be known for years and years and years.

There's no statistically significant data out there showing that the new 4Runner engine needs break in oil changes or 5000mi OCIs. There is statistically significant data that the 1GR in the 5th gen goes just fine on 10k OCIs as shown by all the trucks out there humming along with 200k+ miles on them and an engine failure before 150k being very, very uncommon.

OCIs aren't pulled out of a hat. They have design targets, standardized evaluation methods, and then confirm that the actual engine design meets the design targets. We can assume they determined that 10k OCIs were OK on a 1GR using a standardized evaluation process and they used the same standardized evaluation method on the T24. Now, could that standard have changed? Sure. Do we have any evidence of that? No, we don't.

Youtube mechanics are fantastic in their area of expertise... which is identifying symptoms and showing how to make a repair. There is a difference between root cause analysis and point of failure.

Will you hurt your vehicle by changing the oil every 1000 miles? No. You won't. Throwing out oil that still has life only hurts your wallet. People can do whatever makes them sleep better at night. My beef is with ideas that are not based on science, standards, or statistics becoming "common knowledge".

Tundra problem is completely unrelated to this as this isnt a problem, this is natural for every new engine, the tundra was excessive aluminum flashing coming lose into circulation, much larger particles then this dust. Im not sure of your actual engine building knowledge vs your youtube watching knowledge but ive built alot of engines. This oil does not have life in it, its fully contaminated, do you have to change it? No you can sand down your engine and it will continue to run. Will it be optimal probably not, earlier oil consumption and ring wear, lower standard output from reduced compression, micro bore scoring but this dust isnt going to blow up your engine if you leave it in there.

 

[Joey_Midnight]

I agree with you on this. People either side with anecdotes or stats.
If Toyota really wanted to make some money (not much of a diff), they would've stated to do more frequent oil changes than 10k miles. Anecdote story though: I have a friend who has a 5G 4Runner and he wasn't aware of the break in oil change. He bought his new and also drives very aggressively. He said he floors/redlines it every week since he bought it out of the lot and also stays in lower gear (manual shift) because it taps into the power band better versus having the car hunt for gears.
To this day, he is about to hit 200k miles with no issues or oil leaks. There's a story for y'all who like anecdotes over stats

Toyota doesnt make money from oil changes, dealers bearly make a penny from them, from working them i know they would rather extend your intervals to cause more damage and increase your chances of requiring repairs for them to profit from. Your cars health isnt going to make dealers or manufacturers more money. I cant say id forego $30 in oil change parts because of a story from your friend lol im sure the truck runs and break in dust wouldnt cause any oil leaks, but i doubt that engine is has strong or healthy as one with a proper break in period. I have no doubt that your friends truck will continue to run though.

 

[ah4rsr5]

Toyota doesnt make money from oil changes, dealers bearly make a penny from them, from working them i know they would rather extend your intervals to cause more damage and increase your chances of requiring repairs for them to profit from. Your cars health isnt going to make dealers or manufacturers more money. I cant say id forego $30 in oil change parts because of a story from your friend lol im sure the truck runs and break in dust wouldnt cause any oil leaks, but i doubt that engine is has strong or healthy as one with a proper break in period. I have no doubt that your friends truck will continue to run though.

Right thats why I said not much of a difference if they're trying to make money.
I do see that side too on extending intervals to potentially cause more failures. I agree with everything you said... I'm just more concerned about the FUDs when it's really not THAT bad if you were to miss a break in oil change.

However, I am on the boat of doing break in oil change bc it's cheap and quick to do at home compared to a what if situation with the engine many years/miles down the road.

 

[Joey_Midnight]

Right thats why I said not much of a difference if they're trying to make money.
I do see that side too on extending intervals to potentially cause more failures. I agree with everything you said... I'm just more concerned about the FUDs when it's really not THAT bad if you were to miss a break in oil change.

However, I am on the boat of doing break in oil change bc it's cheap and quick to do at home compared to a what if situation with the engine many years/miles down the road.

Ah understood. Ya if you cant get to it then your car wont explode. Haha

 

[CO/ZA]

Funny the people who recommend against 10m oil changes are the people who profit from additional work.

USA is on 10ppm ultra low sulphur gasoline as of 2021. Same as Central Europe where they run 2yr/18.5k mi intervals.

On the topic at hand, I like a 1k initial short change simply because it makes me feel good.

10k mi on M1 0w-20 ESP is a totally fine and doable interval in the year 2025.5

Sponsored